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 Discussion on HOTEL AND MUSEUM INVESTMENT

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Negardi
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PostSubject: Discussion on HOTEL AND MUSEUM INVESTMENT   Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:31 pm

Assalmu Aleikum Harakatchi!

It has been Announced that a Museum and A Hotel is going to be
constructed by an Investor in Hrarar. Before an agreement or a deal
is reached between Harar League and the Investor every one should
have a say on this matter. I would pin point the following:

A) The Museum:
Who is it going to represent? If this is Known,then:

-Where is it going to be build?
-What shape is going to have?
-Who is it going to run it ?
-If different ethnic groups are represented, who will be
in charge?
-What impact is it going to have in the cultural preservation of
our Harari community?

B)The Hotel :
-Before the project starts, study should be done on the following
matters:
a) Who will be the guests?
If Moslems and Christians, how are we going to accommodate
them in the same hotel?
b) What kind of services is it going to provide?
Are this services going to clash with the culture of the
inhabitants?
c) Who will be the working force?
Who will manage and direct day to day activity of the
Hotel?
d) What is the benefit and disadvantages of building this Hotel?
e) What impact is going to have on individuals and small
buisnesse located in the area?

Dear brothers and sisters:
Let us not just get overjoid by having huge buildings in Harar. We should always look further and say what does our people benefit from it?
Does is it contribute to the improvement of the living condition of our community? If it does, well and good. Let us go for it. But the matter should be digested by everyone of us before we come to a conclusion.

Negardi
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Hararvis
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PostSubject: Hotel   Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:18 am

"a) Who will be the guests?
If Moslems and Christians, how are we going to accommodate
them in the same hotel?"

Build two hotels! Sorry but even to ask this question is crazy and divisive. What if a Hindu or Buddist guest came? What about non-believers? We all breathe the same air and drink the same water...

Harar desperately needs a good hotel & restaurant to attract visitors, the current hotels are somewhat lacking, especially for overseas visitors. Just look at the Ras, Belaneh or Rewda to see the proof of this. It is no accident that most overseas visitors are "backpackers" who do not spend much money, richer visitors just do not find the standard of accomodation that they require.

Of course Harar may not want to attract rich visitors, but that is another story...
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Canadian
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PostSubject: Museums Hotels and Stupidity   Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:51 am

"The Museum:

-If different ethnic groups are represented, who will be
in charge?"

Does it matter? Harari, Somali, Ferengi, it does not matter as long as they do a good job. Even to suggest this is racist.

"B)The Hotel :

a) Who will be the guests?
If Moslems and Christians, how are we going to accommodate
them in the same hotel?"


I am amazed!! Do Christians require different beds or rooms to Moslems?? Do Moslems require different room designs to Christians? Go to Pakistan, UAE, Jordan or any other Moslem country, hotels are open to all, religion does not matter.

Harar needs investment, but to look inwardly like this is not a good sign at all. Ethnicity and religion do not matter, to suggest otherwise is a recipe for problems.
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Advice
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion on HOTEL AND MUSEUM INVESTMENT   Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:15 am

Nagard

you have raised a question which realy makes very difficult and question that creat devisive. However Canadian puts it in very few words wonderful answer. If harar have goveorment like Taliban style yes Nagradi your quesion is valid and harar will have big problem to accomodate tourists. Unfortunatly there is no Taliban style govornmet in harar.
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Negardi
Guest



PostSubject: Clarification on the above Subject   Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:07 pm

Harakatche!!!

What is the basic thing to do before openinig and operating a buisness?
Study the area where the buisness is to be operated. This includes, the
people who live in the surroundings . This means, their culture, religion,
ethnicity, and their respective income. If one has a basic understandig of
these matters, he or she will be sucsseful in establishing his buisness.
Since all of us are from Harar we basically know that the majority of the people are Moslims.Thus, what kind of Hotel is required is not questionable. A Hotel that the sons and daughters of Harar can be employed, A Hotel that is not hostile to the Islamic culture. If this kind of
Hotel is built then we should go for it. This Hotel will be open for other people who practice different religion too. Including Christians. It shouldn't be the otherway around. Because it is built in a Moslim land and within a
Moslim society.

Let us talk on this issue first. I know all of us say our religion is first.
(dinghow megel)

Negardi
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Hararvis
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PostSubject: hotel   Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:16 am

I always thought a hotel is for the customers, nearly all who will come from outside Harar. If you don't attract customers, then there will be no employment or prosperity for the Hararis.

Please tell me how a hotel could possibly be offensive to the Islamic culture? The main reason I can think of is the serving of alcohol. However many Moslem run hotels in Islamic countries serve this to non-muslims. A good hotel will be acceptable to all faiths, and it does not matter to most customers what the faith of the owner is.

At the end of the day, if the hotel genuinely upset all Moslems, then there is a high chance it will go out of business. No hotel manager would want to do this.

Once again Harar needs to think outside it's small local issues to attract investment and visitors.
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Canadian
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Discussion on HOTEL AND MUSEUM INVESTMENT   Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:35 am

"Because it is built in a Moslim land and within a
Moslim society."

Actually, no. Harar has a mixture of religions, maybe within the Jugal, Islam is the biggest religion, but just look at the incredible number of churches in Harar. To call this a Moslem society is not true, and divisive. It is a mixed society which is a good thing. Neither is Ethiopia a Moslem land.

Perhaps you would like this to be a Moslem society like Somalia or Afghanistan, but at present this is just not true.
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Sima
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion on HOTEL AND MUSEUM INVESTMENT   Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:34 am

"What is the basic thing to do before openinig and operating a buisness?
Study the area where the buisness is to be operated. This includes, the
people who live in the surroundings . This means, their culture, religion,
ethnicity, and their respective income. If one has a basic understandig of
these matters, he or she will be sucsseful in establishing his buisness."


As the Americans say, "total bullshit". When you open a business you look at what the customer demand is. You can open the most locally friendly hotel in the world in Harar, but if it does not attract customers (most who come from outside Harar) then the hotel will fail. A hotel by it's very nature attracts people from outside the area it is situated in.

Look at the success of the Sheraton in Addis Abeba. It does not care about the poor people who live nearby, but offers what the paying customers want. You and I may not like this, and may not be able to afford to sleep there, but it is a fact, and because it is successful offers many jobs to people in Addis.

"I know all of us say our religion is first."

I am sure the many Christians in Harar would not like your description of Harar as a Moslem society, it is a mixed society, maybe Moslems are majority but this does not make it an exclusivly Moslem society. Also why put your religion first? This does not attract customers, and it sounds like Talibinisation. All of us do not say that. Some of you might say it, but certainly not all.

I have been to two of the "best" hotels in Harar, they are dirty with poor service, often no water, and poor food. If a new hotel opened with clean rooms, good staff, water tanks and a good restuarant I am sure it would attract many guests to Harar.
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Negardi
Guest



PostSubject: Reality check on your replyes   Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:40 pm

Assalamu Aleikum.

When one visits Harar what does he or she report? The answer is about
Jegol, markets, people, and crafts. Let me put it in simple way, The city
inhabited by Muslims, crouded city markets with clothes worn by the inhabitants, hand made crafts sewn by moslim ladys. Everything is about
moslim society.... The type of tourist who comes to Harar will observe about Islamic culture unlike the tourist who goes to Lalibala observes Christianity. If this is what the tourists observe in Harar upon their stay,
do they need a Hotel that sales Alcohol to customers? Do we need a Hotel,
upon saling Alcohol infestes the minds of its cutomers or guests thereby
make them act routly to employees and the inhabitants of the city? Not me. Alcohol leads to prostitution too...........

Tourists who visit cultural heritage area usually don't spend much. We know this for a fact. Even the past local tourists guides ( Ferengi Atali)
will support this fact. Unfortunetly tourists who go for leisure, (like hotels
for gambling,beaches,etc) are the most spenders. So we shouldn't expect
from these tourists much.The Hotel in Addiss (Sheraton) is successful because of different reasons. One of which is Addis being a capital city and Home for OAU and ECA. Also all the Main government Offices are located in Addis.

If you think a tourist doesn't visit Harar, because a Hotel dosen't provide
Alcohol you are wrong.For one thing the visitor knows why he is coming to Hrarar in advance.The advantage for not saling alcohol is an employment opportunity for our sisters and brothers.
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OZ
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Discussion on HOTEL AND MUSEUM INVESTMENT   Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:34 pm

Just in response of this Hotel thing... how about we leave the customer situation for the Investor. He already did his preleminary study and decided to do this. He knows lot better than all of us here in this forum... that's why he's so rich.

About the islamic situation. We all know how to behave and we all should stick with our rule.... I am sure lot's of Hararians from Harar or anywhere else been in Sheraton Addiss and other big hotels... so what's a big deal bringing same building to Harar since we always visit them in different city.

my opinion on this is ... such big Hotel will lift the standard of our city to one step up. perhaps other hotels in city will react for the competition and afterall customers will gain or benefit....

last but not least... if one is building this big hotel with non islamic character.. then if anyone concern he or she will be able to do simillar with islamic style... so customer will have both options.

cheers,
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Hararvi
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Discussion on HOTEL AND MUSEUM INVESTMENT   Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:23 pm

Negardi,

Obviously your objections are based around the selling of alcohol. Alcohol is legal, and in moderation is benificial to health. Just because one religion does not allow it (although many Moslems drink in private), does not mean that you stop serving it to others. Prostitution exists in Pakistan without alcohol... I could argue that the excessive chat consumption here causes more health and economic damage to the city...try getting hold of an official in the afternoon. For many cultures, a glass of wine or beer with a meal is civilised and expected. Anyway there are many bars in the Jugal.

Most visitors here really do not care about the religion, they come because Jugal is lovely to look at. If it was 100% Christion or even Martian, they would still come. At present they do not spend much money because there is nothing to spend it on, and the present hotels and restauarants are very bad.

You obviously have not done much travelling to other countries which activly attract tourists. If there was a good hotel, it would attract older, richer customers. These people would never have come here otherwise. The other hotels would need to improve in order to avoid losing their customers which as Oz says is good for the city. Richer customers, mean that intelligent Harari's can offer other services such as restaurants, shops, entertainment, hairdressers, and tours of Harar and surrounding area. All this increases the prosperity of the city.

At present Harar is living in the past and even during the Millenium celebrations, rubbish was piled up outside the Jugal wall, on Hakim Mountain rubbish was evrywhere, and services were poor. Is this the opinion you want tourists to have of the city?


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Canadian
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Discussion on HOTEL AND MUSEUM INVESTMENT   Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:53 am

"Tourists who visit cultural heritage area
usually don't spend much. We know this for a fact. Even the past local
tourists guides ( Ferengi Atali)
will support this fact. Unfortunetly tourists who go for leisure, (like hotels
for gambling,beaches,etc) are the most spenders. So we shouldn't expect
from
these tourists much.The Hotel in Addiss (Sheraton) is successful
because of different reasons. One of which is Addis being a capital
city and Home for OAU and ECA."

You don't know the hotel business at all I can see. Tourists will spend lots of money if the services are there and of good quality. At present the quality of hotels, restaurants and hotels in Harar really is poor. Go to the Ras in Harar and ask for coffee and taste the muck that they serve. Look at the dirty rooms. The same for the other hotels here. Many cannot even provide water.

The Sheraton is successful because it offers what customers want. The Ras in Addis is not successful, because it offers poor quality and service.

Take another example. Go to Debre Zeyit. Look at the lovely hotels there. They offer what customers want and provide quality. There is nothing to buy there, people go to look at the natural scenery, but want somewhere nice to stay. When in the hotel, they spend a lot on food, drink, guides, shops... Harar has nice man-made scenery as well as natuaral scenery, but does not provide good accomodation nor food.

The Lonely Planet guidebook to Ethiopia which is used by many tourists says the following:

Belayneh Hotel: "Stay clear of the restaurant- the fodder is as bland as the dining room"

Ras Hotel: "A cross between a boarding school and a psychiatric institution"

Hirut: "Service was a tad amaturish on the day we popped in"



Anywhere else in the world, tourists spend a fortune at cultural sites. Harar has not got it's act together on this.
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Travelle
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Discussion on HOTEL AND MUSEUM INVESTMENT   Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:37 pm

As a recent traveller from Europe to Ethiopia and Harar, I followed this thread with interest. I spent a week in Harar, which was too long as there is not much to do after you have seen the walled city and hyenas, but you may be interested in some comments:

Hyenas: OK, but ferengi had to pay 50 birr each, Ethiopians watched for free. This is racist to me.

Dino restaurant: Looked like a new restaurant with a big investment. But food not good, many items on menu not available, expensive, no beer, and extremely poor service. The waiters were awful. Tasteless tibs, stale bread.

Ras Hotel: Club sandwiches were disgusting! No fruit juices.

Belenay? Hotel: Hamburger like no other hamburger in the world. Really not nice at all.

Harar Brewery: Excellent beer. But food very poor, the worst eaten in Harar.

Hirut restauarant: Best in Harar, but this is not saying much. First time tibs were good. Second time, many items missing from menu, and staff forgot to bring many things despite reminding.

Rose cafe: Menu was a work of fiction, fruit juices not avalable.

Best meal? In Dire Dawa, Paradiso. Good food and good service.

I enjoyed Harar, but the hospitality trade has a long way to go for a tourist centre. I will not mention the hotel, but let's say never again! There were chat rooms on the top floor, staff were dirty and slow. Also tried to charge me much more than they should.
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Back Pac
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Discussion on HOTEL AND MUSEUM INVESTMENT   Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:02 am

Hi Travelle,

Had to laugh at your description of Dini's. I ate there and had the same bad experience. Also the place was empty...wheras Hirut was very busy. The reason?

Hirut serves beer and wine, Dini does not!!!
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Negardi
Guest



PostSubject: community needs   Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:30 am

Harakathce!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I repeatedly metnioned the needs of our community in the above discussions. Some how your replies doesn't base on that. I repeat again,
the Hotel should provide a job oppurtunity for the our people. They should
be given the opportunity to fill the positions available, from management
to lower level positions. This could be possible only, if the working enviroment is made to go hand in with our culture.

The other issue you mentioned, cleanliness, which is very important in a hotel buisness is a mater that involves a thourogh disussion. If we continue it will take us to the main issues of the Water problem, Hotel
management, Inspection, Training, setting Hotel standars, and so on.
The Hotels you refered in your responses, where ones new and clean. To
bring them back to their best days is also another issue. How we keep
the new ones from having the same fate is also a matter we should look into but we should discuss them accordingly.

Some of you talked about customer needs. If a Hotel is built only for customer needs and forgets what the communities interest is, Mentioned
in my first paragraph, then I disagree on building it. If the majority of the
population is Moslim, and if Moslims work only in Hotels that don't serve
Alcohol, which is the reality in Harar, What's wrong If we have a non Alcoholic serving Hotel?
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Hararvi
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Discussion on HOTEL AND MUSEUM INVESTMENT   Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:16 am

"If the majority of the
population is Moslim, and if Moslims work only in Hotels that don't serve
Alcohol, which is the reality in Harar, What's wrong If we have a non Alcoholic serving Hotel?"

There is nothing wrong with having a non-alcoholic hotel. Go ahead and build one, no one will complain. However as Back Pac noted, a restaurant serving alcohol makes more business than one that does not sell it.

I have met many, many Muslims who serve alcohol in hotels. So this is not a problem for many of them. If they don't want to work in a hotel, no problem, there are many others who will want to work there.

By the way, go to the Tana Hotel and count how many Muslims are actually drinking alcohol!
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Hatrarvi
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Discussion on HOTEL AND MUSEUM INVESTMENT   Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:43 pm

The investor Sheikh Al-Amoudi, was involved in the financing of the Addis Sheraton hotel. So it is quite safe to assume he knows what he is doing, and despite his religion the new hotel will sell alcohol.
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